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 worthy of breeding

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Mason



Number of posts : 33
Age : 35
Location : Louisiana
Registration date : 2007-12-13

PostSubject: Re: worthy of breeding   Wed Dec 26, 2007 8:12 pm

I understand that everyone has a different opinion on what they determine worthy to be bred. Instead of us asking whats worthy to be bred, why don't we ask what makes up a superior specimen in todays day and age, because that is what should be bred. Our dogs came from gladiators at one point or another, no doubt about it. The APBT has been a dog that has excelled in multiple tasks that were not limited to just the PITT. I could see maybe 40 years ago basing what should be bred off of what dogs did in the PITT but we are in a different time zone now. Which means that more than likely the primary role according to what they were bred for will change, hate it or love it, its reality.

For instance, the APBT started off baiting bulls which eventually became outlawed if I am not mistaken and the role changed from baiting to one on one dog vs. dog. We can agree that both were tests of gameness and those that excelled at that time were bred to the best dogs that excelled in the PITT. Today, their is no alternative to testing for gameness, their is only one way. And even if you decide to test, there is still no garuntee that your dog will have enough pressure applied to them to even determine if they are game. These dogs should carry those old traits to fit their role in todays society, such as the will to please their master and to do whatever task he/she asks them to do.

Therefore what should be bred are superior representatives of the breed. Total dogs that can work with the conformation of the gladiators from the past. Loyal animals who will do anything for their master and love hard. Dogs who are mentally stable and are mature enough to do a proper evalutation of their temperment. Which means that todays focus should be more than just gameness and gameness alone.
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midwest_showdogs
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Male Number of posts : 457
Age : 38
Location : missouri
Registration date : 2007-10-27

PostSubject: Re: worthy of breeding   Wed Dec 26, 2007 10:21 pm

I got to say mason you have nailed it right on the head that is a great post

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Attila



Male Number of posts : 88
Location : Dogville
Registration date : 2007-05-26

PostSubject: Re: worthy of breeding   Thu Dec 27, 2007 9:09 am

interesting topic. I will just observe it and reflect on it in my own mind. It is always a pleasure seeing what others concepts are in these new days.
some I agree with and other points not so much. The dog of yesteryear is so very important to me and must be preserved. That being said, Gameness can not be directed or channeled into some event such as pulling and so forth. It is a use of energy and some portion of the drive to please its master but has no relation to the concept of gameness. Another topic that many have their views, concepts of testing, and concepts of use with. Not worth the time and arguements that topic leads to. Not to mention the stress it causes staff and old timers. A title alone doesn't make a dog, nore the pedigree or owner. An owner/handler influences, trains and cares for the dog, however the dog will become what it will upon its own traits and personality. One can train a dog to do many things but you can not train spirit into it. You can however break it or tarnish it. You have to foster great care into the process and give that dog all the love and chance to become as perfect as it can be. It isn't a one thing deal on what makes a dog breed worthy. Title is but a small portion yet important yes, but its conformation, drive, wind, good qualities, genetic perfections and imperfections, faults, etc and so forth all must be calculated and a set of values and expectations met before even concidering it. The goal is to maintain and improve, never to digress or degrade in any part of the makeup of the breed as a whole. If it will not improve your yard don't use it. Never be ashamed not to use a dog titled or not. There have been many champion dogs not used for breeding for any of several reasons. Title, papers and pedigree is only but a small part of the big picture. You can't learn everything out of books, apprentice on a yard or more than one preferably. over time many questions will be answered just in observation of he master handler/breeder etc. every one should start out shovel in hand. Then that person will learn all there is to know about what makes a dog worthy and the person worthy to own and breed such a fine dog.
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wheezie wayne



Number of posts : 29
Age : 32
Registration date : 2007-12-02

PostSubject: Re: worthy of breeding   Thu Dec 27, 2007 6:17 pm

a title should come from having, conformation, great wind, strength... everything that atributes to making a great athlete. the only way to see the best is to compete. this is a working breed. i dont think conditioning your dog constitutes it as a working dog. The breed will never be the same post 1976. the one focus is taking gameness which is only a trait for hte [] and move it t extreme drive. like i said before i have no use for gameness ineed extreme drive in the things i do with my dog.
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Dunlap
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Male Number of posts : 1083
Age : 32
Location : east Texas
Registration date : 2007-03-04

PostSubject: Re: worthy of breeding   Thu Dec 27, 2007 9:38 pm

Attila wrote:
interesting topic. I will just observe it and reflect on it in my own mind. It is always a pleasure seeing what others concepts are in these new days.
some I agree with and other points not so much. The dog of yesteryear is so very important to me and must be preserved. That being said, Gameness can not be directed or channeled into some event such as pulling and so forth. It is a use of energy and some portion of the drive to please its master but has no relation to the concept of gameness. Another topic that many have their views, concepts of testing, and concepts of use with. Not worth the time and arguements that topic leads to. Not to mention the stress it causes staff and old timers. A title alone doesn't make a dog, nore the pedigree or owner. An owner/handler influences, trains and cares for the dog, however the dog will become what it will upon its own traits and personality. One can train a dog to do many things but you can not train spirit into it. You can however break it or tarnish it. You have to foster great care into the process and give that dog all the love and chance to become as perfect as it can be. It isn't a one thing deal on what makes a dog breed worthy. Title is but a small portion yet important yes, but its conformation, drive, wind, good qualities, genetic perfections and imperfections, faults, etc and so forth all must be calculated and a set of values and expectations met before even concidering it. The goal is to maintain and improve, never to digress or degrade in any part of the makeup of the breed as a whole. If it will not improve your yard don't use it. Never be ashamed not to use a dog titled or not. There have been many champion dogs not used for breeding for any of several reasons. Title, papers and pedigree is only but a small part of the big picture. You can't learn everything out of books, apprentice on a yard or more than one preferably. over time many questions will be answered just in observation of he master handler/breeder etc. every one should start out shovel in hand. Then that person will learn all there is to know about what makes a dog worthy and the person worthy to own and breed such a fine dog.


VERY nice post Wink

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sedaliapridekennels



Male Number of posts : 932
Age : 35
Location : Sedalia Missouri
Registration date : 2007-06-03

PostSubject: Re: worthy of breeding   Thu Dec 27, 2007 9:43 pm

man its nice to have william back welcome back i know you have been bussy lately but hey anywheys glad you are posting up some good articles cant wait to read more i kindove miss them
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old family red



Number of posts : 4
Age : 34
Registration date : 2008-01-14

PostSubject: Re: worthy of breeding   Tue Jan 15, 2008 4:46 am

As far fighting goes it is illegal, but it is what made the APBT the stable dog it is today. as for the dog not being the same dog or an amstaff if it does not fight i disagree. Believe me if i had the chance to live pre 1076 and own some of the great dogs of that day and be around the dogmen of my liking. I am sure there are many dog men in those days that were in it for money and nothing else, but there were also some that loved this breed and would take care of there dogs with great love and care. I read that Lightner owned this one dog who when rolled was so devastating and killed each dog it rolled into. He felt that it would be wrong to fight this dog since it was to good and because of the damage it might have done to the other dogs If all dog men were like this then fighting would not be so bad IMO. The breed was bred for the pit but breeding it nor for sports or hunting activities, and if that is wat it takes to own this wonderfull breed then i see nothing wrong with it as a dog who does not fight not being worthy of breeding, that is simply something that is up to the breeder.
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