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 Is breeding dogs for the show ring hurt the breeds ?

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midwest_showdogs
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PostSubject: Is breeding dogs for the show ring hurt the breeds ?   Sun Mar 08, 2009 10:19 pm

Below is an article arguing that breeding for conformation shows is leading to the downfall of working breeds. What do you think? Will the conformation ring doom the apbt?
Rosettes to Ruin:
Making & Breaking Dogs in the Show Ring


Bull terriers heads have change in 50 yrs.
Bulldog and terrier crosses, which once had powerful jaws well-placed to do important work (gripping and holding semi-wild bulls and pigs so they could be altered or slaughtered), were rapidly transformed at the turn of the 20th Century to the point that the jaws of today's Bull Terrier, while still massive, are now no longer set at a proper angle to do the work the dogs were once bred to do.
If you look at the Fox Terrier, you will see a similar transformation over time -- once small and supple dogs transformed into large, stiff-legged creatures unable to move properly in the field and with chests too deep for the animal to go to ground after fox.
This is what show ring breeders do -- they ruin working breeds. And it is not just the AKC show ring, either -- it's the UKC show ring and the JRTCA show ring as well. Give any show ring enough time, and it will ruin any breed of working dog -- it always has and it always will.
Go through John Broadhurst's excellent new book, "Terriermen & Terriers" (ISBN 0-0687296-1-4) and look for Welsh Terriers, Border Terriers, Wire Fox Terriers, Smooth Fox Terriers, Cairn Terriers, Lakelands, Skye Terriers, West Highland White Terriers, Cairn Terriers.
They are simply NOT there.

cross post from pit bull chat

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Last edited by midwest_showdogs on Sun Mar 08, 2009 10:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
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woody d

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PostSubject: Re: Is breeding dogs for the show ring hurt the breeds ?   Sun Mar 08, 2009 10:29 pm

i say absolutely yes. at one time the english bulldog was a powerful working breed, now look at them poor dogs. the gsd was a healthy breed years and years ago until they caught the eye of the show people. now they have slope backs and i believe they are the most affected dog by hip displaysia. neopolitan mastiffs, staffordshire bull terriers, the list goes on and on.
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pitmamma
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PostSubject: Re: Is breeding dogs for the show ring hurt the breeds ?   Mon Mar 09, 2009 4:35 am

Good post
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pocketdunlap



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PostSubject: Re: Is breeding dogs for the show ring hurt the breeds ?   Tue Mar 10, 2009 2:12 am

Function follows form!
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smoke



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PostSubject: Re: Is breeding dogs for the show ring hurt the breeds ?   Fri Apr 17, 2009 7:59 pm

The Amstaffs were bred for conformation and look what happened to them. When you stop breeding for gameness(that is what made these dogs different than the rest) and only breed for conformation(looks) you end up losing what these dogs were made for. Before I get hit with throwing rocks, let me just say that this is how I believe and if you believe differently that is your right.
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alfisher3



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PostSubject: Re: Is breeding dogs for the show ring hurt the breeds ?   Fri Apr 17, 2009 9:20 pm

I agree w/ the article, I think that over time if you continue to breed for confirmation as oppose to function then eventually it will water down the breed. That has been proven time and again as mentioned with many of the breeds listed in the article above. It's kind of the same as comparing a bodybuilder to a professional weight lifter, although the body builder has the look that he would be much stronger, it would be embarrassing at best to watch him try and compete w/ the professional weight lifter in true strongman competition, and animals are no different.
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clkennels



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PostSubject: Re: Is breeding dogs for the show ring hurt the breeds ?   Tue May 19, 2009 3:57 am

Any breeding done for anything other than the original purpose
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TriStateAPBT



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PostSubject: Re: Is breeding dogs for the show ring hurt the breeds ?   Tue May 19, 2009 3:09 pm

I think it’s important to note that the standards of today’s show ring, UKC, AKC, etc, have no idea, nor generally 1st hand experience about the original function of the dogs they have changed standards on. The ADBA and for the most part the AADR, still have somewhat of the original function in mind when the standards were written. At lest the ADBA standard was written by “active dog men” who tried to take the best qualities of the winning dogs of the time and put them to paper. For the most part their standard is very functional. Of course nothing can compare to the true bench mark standard of what our breed should be and this holds true to most working breeds. I just feel that the ADBA standard is the last hold out of what is a functioning wrestling dog (gameness is out with the wash water thought.) It was said best by the ADBA when it was said that at the lest our future generations would know what a true fighting dog “used” to look like. Without a legal means to continue to preserve the gameness of our dogs, we will be just left with a shell of a former great dog.
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sf1986

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PostSubject: Re: Is breeding dogs for the show ring hurt the breeds ?   Tue May 19, 2009 9:40 pm

Breeding dogs for the show ring has not hurt the breed. On the contrary, it has preserved the breed. If not for the people who do legal things with this breed, the breed would already be outlawed. I understand that they do not produce dogs as they were originally intended to be, but it is because of their effort that all people still have a choice to own one of these magnificent dogs.
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smoke



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PostSubject: Re: Is breeding dogs for the show ring hurt the breeds ?   Thu May 21, 2009 8:46 pm

hey sf, i hate to break it to ya but back when the dogs were being used for what they were bred for, they were rare. you couldnt just go out and buy one without knowing someone. now days these dogs are bein bred for looks and the breed is in danger of becoming extince if they keep getting banned. the less people that get their hands on these dogs the better we all are.
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sf1986

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PostSubject: Re: Is breeding dogs for the show ring hurt the breeds ?   Fri May 22, 2009 12:41 am

Well, if people didn't fight their dogs, then the breed wouldn't have such bad publicity. People who own these dogs and use them for showing and pulling are doing good PR for the breed. I understand that years ago the dogs were bred to fight by guys who for the most part kept to themselves and kept their dogs within a small network of friends. They didn't hurt the breed because they kept their dealing secret. Now a days, the secret is out. And worse, newby ameatures have done crazy things such as electricute, hang, and beat curs to death, which everyone now knows about, and which has tainted the image of everyone who owns a pitbull.
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smoke



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PostSubject: Re: Is breeding dogs for the show ring hurt the breeds ?   Fri May 22, 2009 3:11 pm

youre absolutely right!! i would have to add that puppy peddling has hurt the breed and since when does a "fighting" dog mean that it is a bad seed? Game dogs dont bite people blue trash and the like bites people, you never see a dog under 45 pounds on the news, only the 60 pound plus ones
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